Soulful Chats with Psychologist Rebecca Black

In this month's instalment of 'Soulful Chats', I am joined by Psychologist and Sustainability Coach, Rebecca Black.

Join us as we explore Rebecca's incredible journey with healing herself from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia, dive into how she discovered the joys of living a sustainable life and discuss the role that opening herself up to various spiritual concepts and practices ultimately played in her personal transformational and healing journey.

It's an inspiring conversation that highlights the power we each have to be the conductors of our life - you won't want to miss it!

You can find the gorgeous Rebecca on Instagram at : https://www.instagram.com/sustainabletherapists

On Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/CoachingwithRebeccaBlack

And her website where you can learn more about Rebecca and her incredible upcoming program on Sustainability : www.sustainabletherapists.com (website coming soon)

Or you can reach out to her directly by email on:  hello@sustainabletherapists.com

Be sure to SHARE this episode to anyone you feel may be interested or benefit from this content.

And please don't forget to hit SUBSCRIBE to keep up to date with our episodes and give us a RATING below. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

 You can now send me your comments or questions, to hello@integratedwisdom.com.au or find me on Instagram @integrated_wisdom

Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound

You can also find me on Instagram  https://www.instagram.com/integrated_wisdom

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

Tatiana: 0:00

Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast. I am your host, Tatiana Da Silva. Join me as we discuss what it means to live an integrated life and explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater meaning, peace, and connection by integrating the wisdom of spirituality, psychology, Neuroscience, Epigenetics and Energy Psychology are hoped to empower you to create deeper and more loving connections with yourself and others, whilst also paving the way for humanity at large to be reimagined and inspired to become the very best version of itself. So welcome everyone to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast. I'm so glad and happy to have you join me for yet another episode. Today. I have a very dear friend and colleague who I adore, who I look up to and She has the most remarkable story to share with you all today. Her name is Rebecca Black. She's a clinical psychologist and sustainability coach who's helping therapists move away from exhaustion, burnout, and disillusionment into a more balanced, energetic, joyful, financially abundant, and fulfilled career and life. Her journey into this space was driven by her own experiences of burnout as a psychologist and diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. Which she grappled with for over a decade. Having spent years researching, understanding, and personally applying various holistic wellness principles, she was finally able to completely heal her chronic illnesses and start living a truly sustainable life. Her mission now is to use this collected wisdom to guide other therapists and helping professionals to cultivate their own sustainable careers and lives and to eventually create a system that truly develops and support, and even advocates for sustainability in therapists. Welcome, Rebecca. I'm so, so happy to have you join me.

Rebecca: 2:16

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Tatiana: 2:20

I can't wait for you to share your journey, which is so remarkable, um, with our listeners and even the audience. Not just talking from that spiritual perspective, but your own personal journey, which is unique. It's powerful. It's inspirational. Um, and I know it's going to touch a lot of people today, but thank for joining us. Why don't you tell before we dive into the nitty gritty of the questions, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and we know what you, what you do in the world.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 2:47

Beautiful. I think you captured it well already, but, uh, yes, I am a clinical psychologist and a sustainability coach. And my passion really lies in helping therapists create this beautiful, sustainable way of practicing so that we don't end up in those spaces of burnout, which are unfortunately just so incredibly common in our profession and across all, um, health professionals as well. So my mission is to really. Stop that process from happening. Help us tune into our own inner wisdom and apply that, um, outside of, I guess, what we're typically expected to do in the profession.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 3:26

Yes. And there's so many limitations to our profession, right, and expectations that come with the job.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 3:33

Yes. Unrelenting expectations that come with the job. So being able to drop those a little bit and still obviously work in the way that we need to as therapists, but in a way that's also aligned with ourselves. That's really my, my jam.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 3:47

yeah, no, it's so beautiful. And um, Obviously, you and I have spoken off camera about our mutual passions for spirituality and some of the things that we think it can, it can add to our work as therapists. And I, um, I would be even interested to hear from your perspective, what part you think it has to play in your health and wellness journey. Um, cause I think, um, Often people talk about spirituality more in, in the emotional and esoterical ways, but we, we often forget that it also has a part to play in our physical experience of being here, right? Our physical bodies are the houses for our souls. So, um, it's important to take care of that. And there's an element where the two things crossover and interact with each other.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 4:38

Absolutely.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 4:39

talk about that as well.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 4:41

I'm sure we will.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 4:44

So why don't you start with telling us what first sparked your interest in spirituality? Um,

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 4:52

been a really recent thing that's come into fruition for me. I grew up in an atheist family. I was an atheist for a long time. I was an atheist as I was studying and first went into being a psychologist. So it's been relatively in the last, I'd say, Five years that I've probably opened the door a bit more though. I'm sure if I really looked back, there would have been elements throughout my life of having a little bit of an interest, but the door was always quite closed. Um, but really, I think that door started to creak open, um, when I was first diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. So that was, I was still a teenager at that point. Um, um, and. I was met with, for the next few years of going from doctor to specialist to health professional, I was often just met with this, we can't cure this.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 5:53

Mm

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 5:54

This, you're going to need to learn to just cope with this through life. It's just how your life is going to be now. And Initially, I kind of just rolled with that a little bit. I was annoyed, but in the beginning, I was still able to do quite a few things. And I was more in the push crash cycle where I was able to do some things. I even played netball. I could do some physical activity, but then I would crash and burn afterwards, but then I could do it again. And then I would crash and burn afterwards. Um, and it was more when it started to become a really deep decline in what I could and I could pretty much only do my studies, um, that I started to go, well, hang on, this isn't going to work. I can't, I can't just cope with this. Um, and so at that point, I started to really think I'm going to have to move beyond the medical model because the medical model clearly isn't supporting this. They don't have answers. And keeping in mind when I was diagnosed, there wasn't as much available about these conditions as there is now. And there weren't as many recovery stories. You know, the internet is flooded with those now, but, um, I felt really lost. And so I really had to start to go, okay, I can still look at the science of all these other disciplines. I was still looking at, you know, the microbiome and things like that, but I'm going to have to start extending myself beyond that. And so that's how I just started to step into my spiritual journey. We can say, yeah,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 7:26

you found that you needed to find answers in spirituality as well as the conventional wisdom that's available to help you navigate this journey. Wow.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 7:33

Yep. A combination of the both.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 7:38

Um, so what were the spiritual concepts at first? So I hope this, like, grabbed your attention, or you started your, your exploration with.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 7:47

There's lots so,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 7:48

Go Nuts!

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 7:49

strap yourself in guys. Um, The first thing that started it was, was meditation. So when I was in undergrad, I had a beautiful opportunity to sit with somebody who was, um, into mindful meditation. And the very first meditation I ever did in my life was literally in this moment. And it was a beautiful loving kindness meditation. And so it was like, I can literally still remember. It was like, may I be filled with love and kindness? May I be, well, may I be peaceful and may I be happy. And I was like, this is interesting. I'm going to, I'm going to practice this every day and see what happens. But I always had this query in the back of my mind of like, who, who am I asking this off? What who's, who's answering these questions? What is this about? But I just focused on the science of, of this and stayed in that lane and notice that that was really helpful. And I just continued. meditation practices from then on. Um, as I moved into my, uh, finishing masters, I lived with a psychologist after that who was very into Buddhism. Um, and that was fascinating for me. I was really, really interested in all of that and I couldn't help but notice that there was this connection between what I was learning, being a psychologist and what I was in. Buddhist practices. Like there was the mindfulness, there's beautiful compassion, there's this beautiful connectedness that's really cherished in there. And I was really drawn to that and starting to think about those connections on like a therapy level and spiritual level. Uh, and it started to kind of open the door then into kinesiology. So I started to, it's just again, this, the door was just opening a little crack further. a little bit at a time and I started to do muscle testing and kinesiology and I just had first I was very skeptical I should say like I I was very I'm very science oriented in my brain I'm very um classic psychologist I guess we can say

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 10:01

I actually thought and I didn't say it. Like a good

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 10:04

literally

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 10:05

practitioner.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 10:07

that's right and I'm ready to analyze everything I've got my hypotheses there you

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 10:11

Okay.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 10:15

just could not explain. Um, I was very guarded when, um, I would have the initial chat at the beginning and I wouldn't kind of share much of what was happening. Cause I was like, I don't want to bias what's about to happen and I want to be able to see and believe it if it's, if it's happening. And so there was one, like one example that I think is just really beautiful where I had been reading about nightshades. So for people who don't know what nightshades are, they're um, like red vegetables or eggplants, purple vegetables. There's a particular group of food that fall under nightshades. And I had been reading that that can upset the gut microbiome. And I was like, okay, I'll try to eliminate that. see if that helps with my fatigue, with my energy levels. So about two weeks before this appointment, I had cut all of that out. I wasn't eating anything red. It wasn't eating anything purple at the time. And so we do this muscle testing, which if people don't know that as well, um, essentially you hold in, in this example, there are lots of ways to do it. But in this example, I was holding my arm out straight and the practitioner, uh, asks questions of the body. And as they ask, they push down on the arm. You have to keep holding your muscles really strong. And essentially the idea is, is that when the body has like a little weakening, your arm will drop, your muscle will weaken to give a particular answer. Like it will be no, or they asking yes, no questions. Um, and you can't hear what they're asking. So they're asking that in their head. It's an energy interaction. And. My arm went down and I can remember the first time that happened. I was like, no, no, let me hold it straight again. Like, oh, I can hold against it. And I just couldn't like, it just drops like a sack of potatoes. And the thing that came up was they literally said, this is going to sound really weird, but it's saying your body's asking for red vegetables.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 12:08

Oh, my goodness.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 12:09

I know.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 12:12

I mean, I obviously believe it. I just find the specificity is so remarkable, right?

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 12:17

I know. And we'd never had anything like that beforehand come up. It wasn't usual for it to be this group of vegetables or anything like that. And, and he was flabbergasted as well. Like that's why he framed it as like, this is going to be a bit odd. And I was like, okay, I didn't allude to any of that beforehand. Something's happening here. I'm going to continue with this. So again, the crack just opened a little bit and I was like, okay, maybe there's something in this energy space. So. Off we go into that realm. I started to do some tapping, um, got into a bit of Peter Stapleton. Shout out to her. She's incredible.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 12:55

Love Tida. Love her work. Wow.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 13:02

science, like in terms of how psychology views it, I guess, but the science was coming and coming and coming.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 13:08

Um,

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 13:15

energy I started seeing someone for Reiki. I had a few different Reiki experiences and again had some really wild experiences in that that Could not be explained moments where, um, I could, I was having thoughts during the experience and then the practitioner would actually say at the end, did you have this experience? And it would be almost word for word what I was thinking at the time that she was doing what she was doing. Um, or, you know, sharing something afterwards that I might've been thinking before the session or had experiences of before the session, there was actually. I'll tell one that's really fascinating. Um, I'd had a really interesting interaction about a teddy bear that sits at the top of my cupboard.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 14:05

Uh huh.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 14:06

And the practitioner during our session actually said, it's like that teddy bear that's at the top of your cupboard. And I, I just, oh, I took the biggest breath and just said, do you know about this morning? How did that come up? That's so weird for you to use that as an example. Um, so again, just these unexplainable little moments that made me start to think there's a little bit more going on than, than I'm aware of in my, you know, science box that I was in. Um, After Reiki, I think there was a bit of sound healing, um, went into the quantum physics world, did a bit of a deep dive. I know, I knew you'd love that. Bit of a deep dive in there. Got a bit into Joe Dispenza. Found some of the information around that really mind blowing in the quantum physics space. And it really started me to understand that everything is actually, like literally, it is energy. And that, that for me was a real shifting point in going, okay, again, there's a little bit more than what I've been taught. There's a little bit more going on here. Um, and that all this whole process started opening the door to beautiful people like you. I started to connect with more spiritual friends and could have these really beautiful open conversations about that, about things like astrology and human design. And I just, firstly, I found so many psychologists silently love these things and are too scared to share about it, which is why I'm so passionate about coming on here and talking authentically about the stuff that people feel scared to talk about. so much for having me. Yeah, but it's just got this really beautiful depth to it that was really lovely to kind of sink into, especially as someone who didn't grow up in faith or anything like that. So it was really beautiful to connect with this idea that there, there could be more, whatever that means. I don't even have a word for what that means personally, but just the sense that there's something more in the world, um, and beyond the world we can say. And so it just, All started to unfold in that way. Just step by step, all these little moments that kind of open the door to another one and to another one. Um, and it's still unfolding. Like I'm, I'm still in that process. I'm still getting lit up by lots of things. Uh, you know, Teddy, other, um, I said to you a week or so ago that I, so we lost our puppy dog for those who don't know. Um, And I saw him. I saw him after he passed. And I saw him in pure 3D. I almost tripped, literally almost tripped over him and had this moment of, oh my gosh, what just happened? Was that real? Ah! And so the journey just continues to kind of open and I'm, I'm just so open to watching that and observing that and allowing that to unfold in whatever way it does.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 17:05

Yeah. Oh, it's so beautiful to hear you speak about it in that way, because throughout all of that, like all your journey with all those different modalities, what permeates so, so clearly is that you had this willingness to stay curious, right? Cause I think for a lot of people who are very attached to the material explanation of life. that, you know, they hold on so tightly to, there's nothing else. There's just matter. And that's it. Um, they can close themselves off so much to, to the possibility that there's more to it, that when they, even when they encounter it, they refuse to acknowledge it,

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 17:42

Yes!

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 17:43

you were willing to stay curious and stay open. And I think that allowed you to then have this transformative experience.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 17:51

Yes. And it definitely that ebbed and flowed. There were times where I'd be like, okay, so maybe this is actually, maybe there's more, maybe there's this thing. And then the real classic therapist overanalyze a scientific framework would come in and be like, no,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 18:06

Yeah.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 18:07

that's not the case. And then I'd come back to it and something could happen. And I'd come back to it and it was just kind of ebbed and flowed. But the process just continued to build until I'm kind of like, okay. Yeah. Uh, there's, there's something happening here. I can sit in that now without it ebbing and flowing too much, but I'm sure as I continue my journey, there'll be a lot of that back and forth, but there's still this, I just love holding that curiosity, which we, we do have a therapist. We, we do it in our sessions, but it's using it in our life as well.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 18:37

Yeah, 100%. And I'm a big believer that our curiosity is the gateway to accessing our soul and intuition as well. Right. So as you, as you practice that more and more, you start to be able to access that wisdom more clearly and more, more, I guess, decisively. Right. Which you've noticed in your, in your journey, as you've been exposing yourself to more and more and staying curious, the, the confirmation, the validation that comes back to you time and time again, just gets louder and louder to the point where you could see.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 19:09

yes,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 19:10

now to connect with, with spirit at that level, which is amazing. And obviously there's a beautiful loving bond between you, which facilitates that too. Um, but it starts with your, your openness to stay curious to what else is there.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 19:25

Yeah. And obviously that was like a big moment. And as for the people who are listening, I reached out to Tadiana and was like, what the heck just happened? And you sharing your thoughts about that was just again, mind blowing. Okay. This is a thing that happens. Okay. Okay. Okay. Process that. Okay. Okay.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 19:46

isn't it? To be able to have that confirmation that our loved pets, our loved, our loved ones are still, they're still around us

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 19:53

Yes,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 19:54

a different form.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 19:55

we can't move his bed that I saw him on

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 19:57

No.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 19:58

because it was so beautiful.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 20:01

So what benefits do you personally find, um, spiritual incorporating spirituality into your life had for you on a personal level specifically?

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 20:12

I think for me, again, it kind of came from this space of trying to heal the chronic illnesses and, and part of that experience was this loss of focus. and this loss of trust in my body and in myself and in the world in general. There was a lot of pessimism that came in with it. Um, I was really disconnected from myself and my body. I was even against it. Like there was a lot of frustration and why aren't you doing what I want you to do? Like, come on, I want this so bad. Just work, just do the thing. Um, and so, Part of the benefit of that process was really being able to start to tune in to me and that inner wisdom and what I actually needed, um, and start to develop this trust in my body, in myself, in my capacity to honor what was going on for me, but also have this more optimistic and trusting view that I guess I'm I'm supported. Like my body is designed to heal. There's, there is a world that is here to help foster that. And just being able to sit in that and feel supported in that was really, really helpful. sorry.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 21:41

Mm-Hmm.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 21:42

There was also the deeper connections that I was getting with people. I think being able to talk about this. Um, with other therapists is quite this quite a level of vulnerability to it. Um, as you of course would know very well. Um, and so even just being able to go through that with other beautiful friends and having that deeper level of connection was really, really lovely. And to go through, you know, I've got a few friends who, um, and one in particular that we've kind of gone through this opening up of spirituality together. Shout out to her. Uh, but that's been really, really gorgeous to, to be able to, um, connect in that way and open up all of these doors together. So it's a really, really beautiful experience in that way. Um, but I also think spirituality, especially because it comes in all different forms for people, right? And there's all different ways of viewing it. I think there's this lovely level of. acceptance that can come like self acceptance and acceptance of other people.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 22:53

100%.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 22:54

Yeah. And so like, To give an example, like in human design, so for people who aren't familiar with that as well, um, I know lots of psychologists are

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 23:05

we're all closing gigs.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 23:07

That's right.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 23:08

Love

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 23:10

Everybody's reading their astrology. Um, but in, in human design, there's this, so they kind of go through all these different Ways that are part of who you are. And there's, um, I won't go into all the parts, but for example, there's a particular number that comes up on particular people's charts called a hermit.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 23:30

Silence.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 23:31

it's called a line to hermit and essentially it's, it's just so beautiful. It's talking about the idea that

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 23:39

Yeah.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 23:43

need time in. need to rest, need to not be socializing all the time, still can still can have that connection, but it's actually best for them to have space to, um, pull away, reflect, digest things, and seeing that as a strength. So reframing that as a strength, whereas in our society, We're often taught that we need to be extroverted, you know, we need to be connected, you need to be socializing, even science is like, you know, connect, socialize, all of these things. And so it's this beautiful chance to go, okay, hang on. maybe that intuitive way of being that way that I maybe have always felt like I needed to pull back to be on my own a bit more. Maybe I don't need to judge that. Maybe I don't need to change that. Maybe I can accept that as part of who I am and allow that to actually be my strength. And I just think connecting with things like that, regardless of the science, I think that is so beautiful and powerful. So long as it's not. moving it into a harmful space, like those things are so beautiful and connecting and just has this beautiful level of acceptance for ourselves, which I've really loved experiencing.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 24:59

Yeah, it's so needed, isn't it?

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 25:01

So needed, so needed. And so I guess part of it then has also been

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 25:08

alert! Yes, of

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 25:17

armpits coming! Ha ha ha ha ha! But, I I still love science. Like I literally listen to scientific podcasts all the time. I love delving into that. It's been a huge part of my healing journey, but I'm not holding it so tightly that my knuckles are white. I can have that there as a guide and also hold onto other aspects and be conscious of the flaws of science because goodness, there are so flipping many, um, but hold onto the goodness that's there and the guiding light that's there. And be able to tune into myself. Cause like, I, I'm a really big believer. Like ourselves are. We are the best data like what, what goes on for you, what you feel, what your soul is communicating. If we want to put it in that kind of lens, like what is actually happening for you moment to moment, day by day, how things are influencing you. That's the information that's healing. And that's what I needed to be able to literally heal these chronic illnesses was to tune in and apply and, and feel that connectedness within myself.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 26:25

Be guided by the wisdom of your body and your soul.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 26:28

Yes, exactly. It's beautiful.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 26:32

Yeah. And I, I'm with you. Like I obviously am very scientifically minded as well.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 26:37

Yes.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 26:37

and I value science and I know that it has a really important place, even as we speak about spirituality, but it's so important for us to remember that it has its limitations, right? It's only as good as the questions we ask and the tools that it uses. And so, and it's an ever evolving. process. There's always going to be information that comes to light and will change our assumptions, right? As more things come to mind, we need to keep flexible. And I think sometimes people can, again, people can be so rigid with these things and it blocks our growth and development. In, in, I think, limiting and unhelpful ways.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 27:13

Absolutely. Totally

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 27:14

Mmm. But, but obviously you and I have spoken about this and I know other colleagues of mine have spoken about this too, that for those of us who are therapists but spiritually inclined, there's a lot of fear about talking about spirituality and even though we know that it could enhance our practice, it, it still feels like something that's taboo and that we couldn't, we shouldn't go. I agree. I agree. Go anywhere close to, to incorporating, there is emerging science that, that's contradicting that view. Um, but I think for us, like that isn't really trickling down to our, to the, the coalface of where therapists are working, right? But for you, what would you say, if any, has been, uh, an enhancement that having this more spiritual perspective has added to your professional or psychological practice, if any? And I that we're all dipping our toys. Very, very tenderly, but

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 28:11

Yes. Thank goodness for your work for helping guide therapists into being able to use this in their space in a scientific manner as well. Um, I think for me it's less about using it in the sessions because that's something that I haven't got to the space of. I'm still learning and will be learning from you soon more about those things. Um, But I really I, I'll follow the client wherever they're going. If there is a client who's bringing up spirituality, keeping in mind that I work with therapists. So often, um, the psychologists in front of me will whisper something about spirituality and be really shy or embarrassed about saying that. So I'm here to like wrap them up in big, embracing, accepting arms and be like, yeah, tell me more. Yes, I know. I know about human design. Yes, absolutely. Um, but for the most part, it's really helped me be able to know that people have their own inner wisdom and really know that that's part of our journey. I work from a schema therapy perspective, and so I always have in the back of my mind that. the healthy adult mode is really connecting to that inner wisdom and being able to have the space to do so in amongst many other parts of schema therapy. And I think it also has helped me be able to hold this kind of trust and faith that things will work out or be okay so I can hold space a little bit easier for people. Um, even when things are quite Intense in the room. I'm able to hold that space just a little bit easier than I perhaps was before

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 29:56

Oh, how beautiful. We need more of that. We need more of that.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 30:00

Yes, it's definitely more about me as a practitioner as opposed to me Applying any of the spirituality to the people who are in front of me unless that's what's being guided by by them I'm not sure about how that all works together yet, but That is your mission that you are on to teach us these things. Yes.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 30:22

Um, so with that, what are some of the fears that you've had around being a psychologist and a spiritually minded person simultaneously? Like how did you override that fear?

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 30:33

I would say I haven't overridden it.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 30:36

It's a tough one to kick. It is a tough one to kick.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 30:39

Yeah, I mean, even just jumping on this podcast was a big deal. Big deal for me. And you were so beautiful and checking in around that and where things landed for me. But I think, um, there's just this, as we've talked about, there's this awful stigma, unfortunately, in, in our space that sees science and spirituality as butting heads. Um, and I know you have an opinion on that as

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 31:04

Very strong one.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 31:06

yes, them being together, that they actually function together. Um, I really think it's such a shame that we, we do have that stigma and I guess just my role in that space is to continue to be open and authentic to step into this podcast, for example, even though I'm a bit sweaty on my feet, but that's, that's okay to, to be able to show up and say, look, Hey, you can be spiritual and you can be a psychologist too. Um, I think that's, um, Just a really important aspect for us to start opening up because like I said, I literally hear it all the time when I'm working in my psychology practice, when I'm working in my coaching practice with therapists, I hear it all the time that people are connected with this space and there's, there's this level of shame

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 31:52

Yeah. Which is, which is terrible, right? Like, cause when it limits our ability to practice authentically,

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 31:58

Yes.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 31:59

but also we're not being asked to separate a part that's intrinsically tied to who we are, to our essence. Right. If you're human, you're spiritual. Like, you may not have that spiritual awareness, but you're still a spiritual being. Um, and so yeah, it, it's, I often speak about it like working with one hand tied behind my back,

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 32:19

Oh, that's beautiful, yeah.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 32:21

Uh, it's, yeah, it's a limitation, which hopefully we're going to start shirking as a profession, and I think it's coming. I can see little signs that it's coming, so it's exciting. It's an exciting time.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 32:31

Yes. And I'm always thinking about energy because obviously part of my journey was healing my energy. And I think when we're like, you use that beautiful analogy of having your hand tied behind your back, like that takes our energy to not be showing up authentically, to not be able to be ourselves in so many ways, whether that's in the therapy room or outside of the therapy room with colleagues and friends and family. It takes energy to hide those parts and show up in different ways. And so if we can let go of those barriers, those blocks, and actually really accept these parts of ourselves, it just allows us to have more energy for the other things that we want to spend our energy on.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 33:11

Yeah. 100%. And I mean, you, you've seen this yourself through your journey and your work with sustainability, right? Such a big component of that is being authentic in how you go through life and your work. So

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 33:23

Yes, and understanding yourself being able to tune in and understand yourself and accept yourself, but there we go. Drop the mic That's my whole program. See you later. I

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 33:36

you see personally for psychologists and therapists in particular to embrace their spiritual selves or be more curious about spirituality? Yes.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 33:47

a psychologist involves The curiosity and the openness that I think that's a really important part that it can cultivate. Um, and so, yeah, being able to drop some of those biases. We've talked about the black and white thinking or rigidity. Um, but as we were just talking about, most of all, I'm, I'm just most passionate about being authentic. And I think that opens so many doors, um, for psychologists in terms of their energy, in terms of their happiness, in terms of their fulfillment, um, in their career. And so just being able to. Be all of that, be all of themselves. I think that's the biggest thing.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 34:25

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I guess as we wrap, start to wrap up one final reflection from you, if you had to pick one transformative aspect of embracing spirituality more fully, both on a personal and a professional level, what aspect would that be for you?

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 34:50

I'm probably going to want to incorporate two here,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 34:52

That's okay.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 34:53

or 13.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 34:54

can break the rules. are no rules.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 34:58

I'm such a rule breaker. I'm happy with that. Um, I, firstly, I would say meditate. Like that was my first, first, first step. And I think meditation has this beautiful opportunity for you to start in a, um, science based safe place if that's where you need to start. Um, but that allows you to then connect in with yourself. Because the second thing that I would say is that capacity to be able to ask yourself, you know, how am I feeling and what do I need?

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 35:27

Yes.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 35:28

I pipe on about this all the time, but if you're meditating and getting to know yourself through that process, you're going to be able to answer those questions more deeply and be more accountable. Connected to yourself and, and in your words, it would be connected to your soul, right? You, you would be able to do that more easily. And if you can actually respond to those things, that's where all the healing happens. If you can actually go, okay, this is how I'm feeling. And this is actually what I need right now. And you give your body that there is the healing. Like it's such a beautiful thing to do. And meditation doesn't have to be laying down perfectly still, like, I, I really despise that. That's how we see it. I think it's beautiful that we can do that. And I love meditating in that way a lot, but you can do walking meditations. Like there are so many different ways that you can do it. Um, and so finding a way that works for you to start tuning in to yourself, that would, that would be my thing.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 36:27

Oh, beautiful.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 36:29

Yeah.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 36:29

And I always, I've been asking everyone who's come on this question, cause I, I'm also really big on sharing our knowledge, right? Like we all have these little nuggets that we encounter and we can help elevate each other's awareness by sharing these resources and, and findings with each other. So what would be a recommendation that you would make for a transformative? Spiritual book or any other type of resource that you've encountered that people who are listening to this and having a begun their journey, but are curious could use to start exploring these concepts.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 37:03

Well, other than your podcast, of course, so much for joining us. Um,

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 37:08

paid him for the plugging. I promise. Yeah.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 37:13

here. Just enjoying the company. Um, I don't think you could go wrong with anything if you're thinking about, like, a cart toll or, um, Thich Nhat Hanh, Dalai Lama. There's a beautiful Netflix documentary with him in it. I think around Joy. You could start there. Maybe even, yeah, there's Eckhart Tolle has the, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right either, FYI everybody. I have only read that name, but The Power of Now is a really

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 37:49

that's actually his first book that I read. Yeah.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 37:52

Oh, beautiful, yeah! So, options, options people. That would be good.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 37:59

awesome. So excited to have you through this chat. Thank you so much for joining me, but why don't you tell everyone, I guess, what you've got coming up and how else they can work with you.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 38:10

Ah, thank you. Um, Yes, so people can find me if you want to connect with me. You can find me usually hovering around Instagram at Sustainable Therapists. Um, also the same in Facebook. Um, But I do have something really exciting coming up. Um, I am due to launch my beautiful online program for therapists and helping professionals who want to create and cultivate their sustainable, um, career and their sustainable life as well, which is a beautiful 20 week program where I get to hold your hand and guide you through some of what we've talked about today, but, um, Science as well, of course, all of these beautiful ways that we can enhance our sustainability so you don't need to be in that space of exhaustion and burnout and disillusionment and you can actually find your joy and energy and fulfillment and financial abundance within being a therapist. So that's coming soon.

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 39:10

it launching?

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 39:12

Absolutely. You, the doors will open in May to signing up, um, so feel free to reach out if you want to have a chat about it at any time, um, and then we start the first week of June. So not long

squadcaster-78ji_1_03-20-2024_100711: 39:25

no, it's very soon. Awesome. I'll put down in the show notes all the links to your Instagram bio and your website. So for those of you who are curious to learn more about Beck and her amazing work and journey, you can check out, um, her information in the links in the show notes. And if you're at all interested in learning how to work and live more sustainably, you could not be in better and safer hands. This beautiful soul takes such great care of you. Um, so thank you so much again, Beck, for having, for giving me the time coming in here and having this chat with me and thank you all for listening. And I hope you all have a lovely week and I'll speak next time.

rebecca-black--she-her-_1_03-20-2024_093712: 40:05

Thank you!

Tatiana: 40:11

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Integrated Wisdom. It is my sincere wish that today's episode may have intrigued and inspired you to reclaim your power and step into becoming more fully integrated spiritual beings. New episodes are published every Wednesday. And I hope you'll continue to join us as we dive deeper into what it means to live an integrated life. So if it feels aligned to you, I invite you to hit subscribe and share it with others who you feel may benefit too. You may also find me on Instagram at integrated underscore wisdom. Remember, each moment is an opportunity to embrace your divine potential and create a world that is more frequently inspired. So for now, stay connected, stay inspired and keep shining your light. Into the world.