Integrated Wisdom

Soulful Chats with Psychologist & Business Coach Dr Hayley D Quinn

• Tatiana Da Silva • Episode 55

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In this month's instalment of 'Soulful Chats', I have a conversation with Dr. Hayley D Quinn about her journey through incorporating spirituality into her work as both a clinical psychologist and business coach. After experiencing significant burnout while juggling single parenthood, university studies, and multiple jobs, Hayley discovered the transformative power of self-compassion and mindfulness.

Episode Highlights:

  • How mindfulness became Hayley's gateway to spiritual exploration
  • The role of self-compassion in preventing burnout
  • Balancing professional boundaries with authentic spiritual expression
  • The importance of trusting inner wisdom in business decisions


Key Insights:

  • Starting with small moments of mindfulness can lead to deeper spiritual connection
  • Living authentically allows for a more fulfilling life and can help prevent burnout
  • Embracing who you are fully leads to better health and professional outcomes
  • The value of creating businesses aligned with personal values and wellbeing


Book Recommendations:

  • Poetry by Hafez and Rumi
  • "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl
  • "The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion" by Christopher Germer


About Dr. Hayley D Quinn:

Dr. Quinn is a compassionate, person-centered Business Coach and Clinical Psychologist helping women entrepreneurs transform their relationships with themselves and their businesses. After overcoming burnout, she now guides women to embrace their authenticity and build thriving businesses aligned with their values.

Connect with Dr. Hayley:


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Intro and Outro music: Inspiring Morning by Playsound

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be treated as psychological treatment or to replace the need for psychological treatment.

Tatiana:

Welcome to the Integrated Wisdom Podcast. I am your host, Tatyana Da Silva. Join me as we discuss what it means to live an integrated life and explore ways for you to create a life filled with greater meaning, peace, and connection by integrating the wisdom of spirituality, psychology, Neuroscience, Epigenetics and Energy Psychology are hoped to empower you to create deeper and more loving connections with yourself and others, whilst also paving the way for humanity at large to be reimagined and inspired to become the very best version of itself. Hello and welcome to the integrated wisdom podcast. Thank you so much for joining me for yet another week. I am very excited to be bringing the very popular monthly segment of soulful chats once again. And today I have a dear colleague who is working in the space of helping women with the businesses overcome burnout through self compassion and we've come together through our mutual interests of spirituality, we've had some very interesting conversations around our spiritual experiences and spiritual perspectives. And I thought she would be the perfect person to have on the podcast and in this segment. I'm very excited to welcome Dr. Hayley D Quinn. She's a compassionate, a patient centered, Business coach and clinical psychologist who helps women entrepreneurs transform their relationships with themselves and their businesses. After overcoming burnout in her own career, Hayley discovered the power of self compassion and now guides women to step out of the shadows, embrace their authenticity, and build thriving businesses aligned with their values. With a blend of empathy and practical skills, she empowers her clients to stop playing small, Take up space and create a life and business that nourishes them. So welcome Hayley. I'm so excited to have you here.

Hayley:

Oh, hi. And thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

Tatiana:

So I know I gave a really brief overview of the wonderful work that you've been doing, but I'd love for you to share a little bit more about yourself and, you know, what you do.

Hayley:

Yeah. So like you say, I'm a, I'm a business coach and clinical psychologist. I've been doing clinical psychology for a long time. And in the past few years, also doing business coaching, which has kind of evolved from the work that I was doing with my supervisees who started asking me how they could also create businesses. that allowed them to thrive. You mentioned I'd had a significant burnout, which I had. I was at university as a single parent and did my bachelor and honors and then a PhD. And at the time was working, you know, up to three jobs, just trying to survive, trying to get things done, trying to build a better life for me and my son. And I was taking pretty good care of myself, but ultimately I was doing too much like we're human, right? We can't just keep going, going, going. So I did have a significant burnout. Coming through the other side of that really allowed me to sort of look and, and work out what is it that helps you run a successful business? Cause I didn't want to not have my business. Run a successful business, but also really hold your own well being at the core of that so that you can enjoy all the things you're doing in your life. And so that's what I'm really passionate about helping other women kind of do what they want to do, whatever that might be, and whatever success might mean for them, but in a way that really honors their own well being. And yeah, they get to take care of themselves and enjoy the life that they create.

Tatiana:

And it's so, so important, isn't it? Like, it's amazing how many conversations I've been having with guests on this podcast where so many of them have had journeys of burnout or chronic health issues because we're giving so much of ourselves in the work that we do. Uh, and it sounds like even in other facets of business, people are experiencing similar things from what you're,

Hayley:

I think, you know, yeah, I think in the health professions, we know that the rates are really high, but I think actually the rates are really high across the board. And you know, not to generalize too much, but you know, people who identify as women do tend to be socialized into this kind of helping, nurturing, care for others roles. And it can, you can pay a big price for that if you don't kind of blend taking care of yourself as well. Yeah,

Tatiana:

And so many of us have that sensitivity, right? That extra sensitivity as well. That means we take on other people's stuff more than we should. So I guess obviously off. the podcast, we had spoken previously about some of your own experiences with, with spirituality, but maybe for our listeners, if you'd want to talk about what first sparked your interest in spirituality.

Hayley:

it's an interesting question. That one. I don't know. I was that conscious that I was like, Ooh, I'm my interest has been sparked in this. I think some of this, like, like many things in my earlier life kind of evolved and would keep kind of knocking on the door, so to speak, until I paid attention. And sometimes, sometimes it would take me a long time to pay attention. And It didn't always have such great outcomes when I didn't pay attention. So I think, you know, I started a practice of mindfulness when I was at university doing my studies. I was fortunate to be guided by one of the tutors that I worked with at university and she ran like a weekly group and. I really found that really helpful, but I think even earlier in my life, there have just been things that have happened that I've kind of tuned into and gone ahead with. And then when I've had these new experiences, there's just been times where perhaps I've, how would I explain it? It's like I'd get to a place and there would just be a really familiar feeling or something would feel very right. Like I said, I didn't always listen to that earlier in my life, and I certainly do pay attention to this stuff a lot more now. But the, the more sort of, okay, I'm going to be more intentional and pay attention and do this for myself probably was In that time when I was at university. So it probably, it was probably around sort of 2007, 2008, maybe that I I was introduced to a book by Christopher Gurman, the mindful path to self compassion, and I really enjoyed that. But again, I kind of read it, put it down, was so busy, like I was single parenting, I was studying. So whilst I'd read the book, and obviously a part of me had digested that and held on to it, but I wasn't being that intentional. And I guess that practice then built over time, particularly when I was exposed to compassion focused therapy. I think that for me, that that concept of compassion for ourselves and for others. started to allow me to deepen my relationship with myself and pay attention more. So I guess the more spiritual aspects of life as well.

Tatiana:

Yeah. How amazing. I mean, I've, I do believe that these more recent wave of psychotherapies like compassion have a spiritual undertone to them, don't they? But yeah, I know that you're a big proponent of compassion focused therapy. So as we talk through, I'd love to hear more about how, I guess, those spiritual insights in that, in that methodology have also shaped some of your feelings about this stuff. But what, so what would you say with the, was the initial, spiritual concept that you first began your, your exploration journey with. Was it compassion or was it the mindfulness?

Hayley:

I think it w it would have been mindfulness. Yeah. And initially I was trained in acceptance and commitment therapy as a psychologist many years ago. And, and like I said, I'd been reading Christopher Germer's book and And even actually with my son when he was little, we would go on walks and I think when we can look at the world through the eyes of a child, we are far more mindful and he would spot like a flower or he'd see some ants moving and we would stop and really pay attention and be really present. And the time that I had with him, like I was, I was obviously really busy. I had a lot going on. It was a relatively stressful time, but there were all also these times where it was just me and my son and without even realizing about the sort of present moment experiencing and, and being more mindful. I was so enjoying my time with him that they were very mindful moments. And then over time, I began to really understand how different it felt when I was being more mindful compared to when I was just kind of on autopilot or just rush, rush, rush going through, through the day as we all do at times, of course, I'm not mindful all the time. So yeah,

Tatiana:

very hard to be in this day and age, isn't it?

Hayley:

I'd say it was the mindfulness for me would have been, would have been that.

Tatiana:

That gateway. And so it sounds like it's been a very gradual process. And I know when we spoke earlier, I think actually we had our first conversation last year about some of your spiritual journey. And it feels like it's been building. over time and it's built into a momentum now, or more recently, it's building even further. So in this journey that you've had so far, what benefits do you feel there have been for you in, in trying to incorporate, I guess, spirituality or spiritual perspective in your life on that personal level first?

Hayley:

the first thing that comes to mind, I think that's a great question. I think the first thing that comes to mind is when, I mean, for me, I very much separate religion and spirituality. I don't consider myself a religious person. I consider myself a spiritual person. And I think this sense of, You know, I am one part of a very big universe, a very tiny speck of, and I think even just knowing that and reminding myself of that sometimes really helps me put into perspective anything that I'm dealing with. So I think sometimes if I'm getting quite overwhelmed by something or I'm finding something, something difficult by reminding myself that there is a world and a universe and there is something much greater than I am in this whole process helps me connect back to what's important, helps me can connect back to that present moment and to my values. I like to kind of ask myself, you know, is this going to matter in a day, in a week, in a month, in a year, in five years time? And very often the answer is no, right? It's really not going to matter. the big scheme of things, given that I am a spec in the universe, is this worth my energy? So that's, That's been great because I, I spent a lot of time in, in quite an anxious state throughout a lot of my life

Tatiana:

Mm.

Hayley:

I think that's been really helpful to navigate that.

Tatiana:

Uh huh. Do you feel like it's actually, it's becoming more, guess, more prominent in the way that you approach your life, like this, that kind of focus

Hayley:

Absolutely. Without a doubt. Yeah, without a

Tatiana:

It's, I think it's generalizing to other parts.

Hayley:

yeah, I'd say, you know, the coming into contact and learning and teaching others about compassion focused therapy absolutely changed the relationship that I have with myself. And it's been so pivotal for me, both personally and professionally. So, and I've, and I've been learning about that for the last 11 2013 when I was first introduced to that.

Tatiana:

Oh, wow.

Hayley:

But probably in the last 12 months, two years, maybe I'm just so much more tuned in. I just listened to that sort of inner voice, that inner wisdom. It's, it's like, sometimes it's like a knowing,

Tatiana:

Yes.

Hayley:

really describe it as in any other way. I just have a knowing that this is my next right step or This is something I shouldn't be doing or this is something I should get more curious about. So definitely in the last year or two that that's become far more prominent and I find it quite exciting to be honest.

Tatiana:

Yes. Uh, and are you willing to share a little bit about, I guess, some, some of that, uh, that personal, uh, what would you call it? How in a tangible way it's really impacted you positively to be opening, not just opening yourself up to that, but allowing yourself to be led by it. Cause it sounds like it's, there's a guidance there,

Hayley:

Yeah, absolutely.

Tatiana:

Only as much as you're willing to share, of course.

Hayley:

yeah, no, gosh, I'm quite an open book and I'm absolutely willing to share stuff. Sometimes it can feel a bit hard to put it into words in a way somebody else can understand. So. I'll do my best. But I, but I think some of that, I guess it's a trusting it's allowed me when, when I have listened. And I guess to, to just go back a little bit when I've reflected back on my life, I can see where I didn't listen.

Tatiana:

Hmm.

Hayley:

I can see that there had been, I'm going back early, early life. I can see where there'd been some really quite negative outcomes for me through not listening. Through not trusting those gut feelings or that intuition, whatever, whatever it is, the guidance, whatever you want to call it then reflecting on my life of, okay, when did I kind of get the nudges or when did I get that sense of knowing and didn't listen to it and what was the outcome? And when did I get those? And I did listen to it. And what was the outcome? And I can honestly say that when I listened to it, the outcome did tend to be much better. So, so I like to think of myself as somebody who likes to learn and grow. So I thought, well, maybe I should listen then.

Tatiana:

And thankfully spirit doesn't let up, right? It keeps coming and coming and coming.

Hayley:

well, if you don't listen, and I think this was, this was very significant for me in terms of my burnout. that I kept getting those nudges. And, you know, the context of my life was that I very much was in survival mode. I'd been dealing with some trauma. I was a new single parent. I was raising a young child and made the choice to go back to university. So there was a lot going on that I didn't necessarily have the luxury or the privilege to just kind of tune in and Go with the flow. But there were signs and there were things showing up for me that I wasn't paying attention to. And I, and I paid a big price. Like I was really, really unwell and it impacted my health in a significant way. It impacted my ability to earn money. It impacted my friendships and the way I was able to be socially with people because I was really damaged by it, you know, my health and everything. So. I think the more I, I would tune in and listen. I suppose it's been this process of. You know, the more I then thought, okay, well, I need to listen to this now and see what happens. It allowed me to build trust in myself, which I think a lot of people could struggle with. You know, I think we, we,

Tatiana:

so

Hayley:

of attention to what other people are saying. We can pay a lot of attention to what society is telling us is the right thing to do or not. We can pay a lot of attention to people in our close proximity who may or may not want us to, to listen to them. Do particular things or grow in a particular way. I've been really fortunate that I am surrounded by many beautiful, supportive people. And it was important for me to learn to support myself well. Yeah. So I think the more I listened to that guidance, that inner wisdom, that intuition and took action on that, the more I saw positive outcomes and the more I could then kind of trust myself. And what's been exciting about that is it's really allowed me to evolve my business in a way that suits me so well. Like I was. Full time just doing one to one clinical work with my clients. I changed that this quite a number of years ago. We're talking here. This was after my, my burnout changed that to doing more supervision, which I was really enjoying. And like I mentioned at the start, people were then asking me, how, how do I, how could I start a business? How can I set things up? So I'm taking care of my wellbeing. And when I was doing that work, that was really lighting me up. I was finding this kind of newfound energy for working with women, helping them really kind of empower themselves, take care of themselves, create lives that they wanted to live. And I've just kept kind of tuning in and doing things. And my focus is moving more to, to the business side of things. I've got a background prior to being a psychologist in lots of different areas of business. Then I've got, you know, nearly two decades of my learning and experience in psychology that is really helpful in the coaching work that I do as well. So it's really allowing me to, I guess, take some chances on myself, step out of my comfort zone and just listen to what is showing up for me in terms of what's the next best step. Like I'm 54. And I just want to be living a life that, uh, kind of nourishes me, but has really good impact in the world. I'm very passionate about bringing compassion into my work because I really believe that the more we can spread compassion in the world, the more we can decrease suffering. And that's something that I am really passionate about. So Yeah, it's just been a really lovely journey and I, and I'm just so much more open to it now, which is exciting, but takes trust as well, because it's like, Oh, what if, what if I'm not quite hearing that right?

Tatiana:

You're right. And we're so socialized, right? Like to be tuned externally and being led by other people, it disconnects us from ourselves and that inner compass. So it takes a lot of very deliberate conscious work to, to really start to, to open up or turn the volume up, I guess. And it sounds like you've been doing a really beautiful job of that.

Hayley:

yeah. And I find sometimes I'll find myself thinking, Oh, I should ask my husband or I should ask somebody else or I should speak to so and so about that. And then I come back and think, Well, hang on a minute, ask yourself first, ask yourself first, get clear on what you think is that you want and need. And then if you still feel like you need to ask somebody else to do that, but don't keep giving your power away to other people and other contexts. So that, that's still a work in progress. I'm sure it will be for a long time, but I'm getting much better at realizing that actually I have a lot of the answers. I don't, I don't need to, and that's not to say I don't have support because I do. I, I have people in my, you know, I have my own coach. I have a therapist. It's really that trusting of, of me and tuning into what's showing up.

Tatiana:

Yeah. Oh, so beautifully said. And I guess this leads really nicely into then how this transformed the way that you work. Right. So what benefits or how has it enhanced the work that you do? Not just in, I guess we can talk about the psychological work that you, you were doing up until recently but also the coaching work, you know, how it's, it's transformed the way that you

Hayley:

Yeah. So I think one from, from a personal perspective, it's It's allowing me to really design the work I do and my business in a way that aligns for me really well. And in that means I have a life I really enjoy and I'm taking really good care of my health, which ultimately is, you know, very, very important. But I think also what it's done is It's, it allows me to keep coming back to my clients in terms of helping them learn to trust themselves. Like I don't work with people from, and this is, this was the same in psychology and it's certainly the same in coaching. It's like, it's like, I'm not the expert here in what you need to do or what you want or what's right for you, I have some really great skills. to help you get to a place where you can answer those questions and you can move forward on what you want. So I think really bringing that into my work and I think I have done that for quite a long time. And again, particularly from the compassion focus work, really helping people understand themselves and get to know themselves, but leaving space open for Having things show up that we don't necessarily have to understand. And I guess that's the difference for me in coaching. And I think that's where I find the coaching space more spacious, more expansive, a bit more exciting. Obviously with psychology, and rightly so, we need to be mindful when we are working with people who are struggling with their mental health. And we don't want to be making stuff up. We want to make sure, and I know you do some beautiful teaching around the evidence base with some of the spiritual concepts that you work with. And I think that is really important because we're working with vulnerable clients and we need to. Do no harm and we need to take good care. I think in the coaching space, and again, I think when you've been a psychologist, you don't let go of, you know, always need to be mindful where the client's at and how they're, how they're going. But I think it allows for. A bit more playfulness, maybe a bit more curiosity, a bit more sharing. Well, this just showed up. I'm not really sure where that's come from, but it just showed up for me. And I want to share it with you, which you might not necessarily do in our. In some of our more traditional psychology work. So I think it's it just feels expansive. It's the word that keeps coming up for me as we're talking, it feels more expansive and that for me feels really exciting because having been in a place in my life, I struggled with my own mental health when I was younger, having been in a place. in my life where my life felt very small, the, the sense of expansiveness feels really exciting.

Tatiana:

Yeah, that's so beautiful.

Hayley:

know if

Tatiana:

No, it answered it beautifully. And it's so interesting because I think another thing that comes up a lot for people in the idea of being able to incorporate this spirituality or this, this other perspectives into the working with their clients is the ability to show up more authentically themselves. Right. Which is what you're talking about. Like having these little hunches come in and, and be able to. Just express it rather than hold it back and, and worry too much about any of that. And when we think about self compassion and, you know, burnout, how much of a role it plays when, like how much of an impact it has when we're not being authentic on all of these other facets. No,

Hayley:

when we're trying to fit ourselves into living life by somebody else's rules, it can be really harmful. And that's not to say you need to go out there, be a complete renegade, break all the rules and all that stuff. I think when we're, when we're trying

Tatiana:

right. You can't do that.

Hayley:

Yeah, and you know, I, I'm late identified neurodivergent. I was identified with autism and a DH ADHD at age 52. And I look back and think, oh my gosh, I have been trying to fit, I, I'd spent a lifetime trying to fit into being the right way, doing the right thing, behaving how people wanted me to. I used to think of myself as a chameleon. You know, I would, I would read the room and be like, okay, this is how I need to be. And it was soul destroying. So now it's like, well, this is who I am. I like everybody. I'm a work in progress. I will evolve as I, as I age, but this is who I am. What you see is what you get with me. And I'm in a place where I have, Become really comfortable with who I am and I will attract people in my life. And I will have people in my life that are a good fit for me. Whereas I haven't always done that.

Tatiana:

Yeah. Okay.

Hayley:

So that's been really helpful and really lovely. And like you say, I think when we can show up as our authentic selves, I think that, you know, the word authentic, like, like all the words, they all start getting hijacked and wish washed and it's such a shame, but I hold on to that word authentic because it's, it's one of my highest values. And I think when we can show up as our authentic self, we can live a more fulfilling life. We can. follow what it is we're meant to be doing in life. And we can also model that and give permission to other people who are wanting to do it, but perhaps not knowing how or whether they should. So yeah.

Tatiana:

Yeah. No. So, so true. Beautifully said. Uh, and I guess you touched briefly on, you know, some of the limitations of being psychologists or working clinically, but also having this other perspective, the spiritual perspective. And I think particularly in Australia, we have a lot of fear around what it would mean to embrace that part of ourselves and the repercussions professionally that could come from that. Is this something that you, you juggled or do you think that that, Played a role in how quickly you could permit yourself to connect with those spiritual inklings or leanings that started manifesting within you.

Hayley:

Look, I think, I think you're correct in saying there's a lot of fear within the profession. I don't think that has been a particular fear for me in terms of my work. because I guess a lot of the work that I've done and again, coming back to compassion focused therapy for me, it's really about getting to know yourself, understanding the parts of self showing up as the human being. Like at the start of the pandemic, I I had a group for therapists cause I could see that people were struggling. And then I started my podcast, which is changed its name now, but was called caring for the human in the therapist chair, because I just couldn't let go of the fact that you can't not be who you are as a therapist. You can try and leave yourself at the door, but guess what? It's not going to work. Like you are sitting in the chair, you are having an emotional experience to what your clients are saying. You are in a co created relationship with the person sitting across from you. And, and I always knew for myself and, and do. Like, you know, I work in the coaching industry, it's unregulated, but I know I'm professional and ethical. I don't concern myself about all, you know, nobody's telling me I have to be professional ethical, so I don't need to be. It's like, well, I know I am. And. Bringing who I am to my work has been really helpful for not just me, but for my clients, both coaching and clinical and supervisees, and I'm not doing anything, you know, and everybody I know who is, is. you know, acknowledging their spiritual side and they're working as APRA registered psychologists. None of the people I know are out there doing any kind of wacky stuff. That's just weird. That's being made up. So, so I didn't have that fear cause I can hand on heart, say, well, I'm professional and ethical and I do what's best for my client and take care of myself at the same time. So, but I, but I know there is a lot of. And I think, you know, when we think about the three flows of compassion, not just the self compassion, but receiving compassion from others,

Tatiana:

Mm.

Hayley:

this can be really helpful when people are struggling with this because they can seek support and talk to other people who are navigating similar things or have navigated them in the past. So we, we know that, you know, most helping professionals and, and many people, whether you're a health helping professional or not, don't find giving compassion to others, particularly difficult. In fact, probably do that more out of balance than the other two flows. So I think it's important to keep all those three flows in mind so that we can take care of, you know, self care and community care. I think it's all important.

Tatiana:

Yeah. Oh, beautiful. And so what value, from your perspective do you see for psychologists, therapists, even coaches to embrace this, like their spiritual selves, or be more curious about spirituality at least?

Hayley:

I mean, like I say, for me, it's, it's been a journey that has allowed me to put more trust in myself really tune in to that. Kind of in a voice and that, that knowing that shows up, which I think is really helpful. I think if this is something that is of interest to you and you're trying to block it, that can be detrimental. I think when we're not showing up as our authentic selves, particularly in the caring professions, I think it can exacerbate. the problems of burnout for me, and I don't know if this is the same for everybody, obviously, but for me, as I have embraced that more spiritual side of me, I'm far more gentle with

Tatiana:

Mm,

Hayley:

I'm far more forgiving of myself. I give myself a lot more space and grace, and that has had amazing flow on effects to my health. It's, it's kind of broadened how I think about the world or the people, the planet. I went to change to a plant based diet about six and a half years ago.

Tatiana:

Oh, wow.

Hayley:

which feels really nice for me and just feels really aligned. And how I want to kind of be here in the world. So I just think it, I think it's like anything. If you've got a part of you that is interested in something or you've got particular qualities about yourself, if you embrace them, you can live more fully as who you are. If you deny them or try and suppress them. Likely is that suppression of stuff is going to show up somewhere. And in my experience, both with myself and working with multitude of people, it can often express in physical and mental health problems.

Tatiana:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Are you seeing this with your clients? Like have you seen them starting to speak about things in those spiritual terms without sometimes even being aware of it? Like I said earlier, I think compassion focused therapy has a very strong spiritual undertone to it. Uh, and people will bring existential or meaning based issues to, To us or people like us without really realizing that what they're searching for is more of that spiritual self connection.

Hayley:

yeah, absolutely. And I wonder if some, you know, I've always attracted clients who, you know, I was, I was act trained acceptance and commitment therapy trained, and there's a lot of mindfulness and values work in there. And then of course, compassion focused therapy. So I think I, I probably have a skewed kind of caseload of people who are interested in the Getting curious about their values and what life, how to create a meaningful life. So, I'd say I've probably got a bit of a biased audience in that. But, but yeah that, that's always been that, that deeper work for, for a long time has always been of interest to me rather than kind of the sort of superficial.

Tatiana:

yeah

Hayley:

You know, fix, fix some symptoms and, and move on with your life. That's not, that's never been how I've wanted to kind of work. So, yeah, I think ultimately, you know, as human beings, that's what we, we search for, isn't it? Meaning how do we fit? Where do we fit? What's our purpose? What, you know, What's the reason we get up in the morning? And you know, I think Viktor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning, that that was a book I read many years ago as well. So as we're having this conversation, I'm like, Oh, actually, and there was that, and there was that. And I think that's part of the human experience, isn't it? It's like, this is, it's hard being human. It's confusing. The world we live in at the moment is a, looks like an absolute shitshow. How do we find our place and our purpose and the meaning for ourselves? And, and the joy as well. You know, so I think, I think a lot of people are asking these questions and we can't always find them in the places we think we'll find them and we can't always rely completely on, you know, experiments done in labs that are going to give us answers to things. I mean, I've always thought that. I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm a scientist practitioner by training, but I also think, you know, I can't know all the things there are to know. And as human beings, we can't know all the things there are to know. I mean, that's, that seems arrogant to me.

Tatiana:

Yeah. It's always evolving. Isn't it? I don't think that will ever end.

Hayley:

Yeah, absolutely.

Tatiana:

Yeah. What about with your, with your coaching clients? I know that the focus there is more on, on businesses that they're building. Do you see some of these themes coming through there as well?

Hayley:

Oh,

Tatiana:

like, I guess the businesses that people want to build and how they want to be engaging in their businesses. Yeah.

Hayley:

Absolutely. Whilst I'm a business coach, the premise of my work is changing your relationship with yourself and your business. So it's very values aligned. It's very much about tuning into how is this going to work for you as a human being running this, where, what do you want to be doing? Like, as far as we know, nobody's come back and told us otherwise yet. As far as we know, we get one precious life. So, and you know, for, for many people, a lot of time is spent working in some form or another. So how do we want to create that in a way that feels meaningful, that feels joyful, that supports the, the life you want? I'm very much about, you know, we don't, we, we don't live to work. We. We create a business to support a lifestyle and our wellbeing. So yeah, absolutely. This is, this is work I do with people in my business coaching.

Tatiana:

Yeah. Very fascinating. Have you noticed a shift though, like in more recent years where it's becoming a bigger feature for people or has it always been there?

Hayley:

Well, I think this is, this has always been a premise of my work. So I've, I've been, I've been working with this kind of perspective for many, many years now. So I, I think that's, that's tricky for me to answer. It's certainly yeah, from my perspective, I've always come back to these questions.

Tatiana:

Yeah.

Hayley:

Yeah,

Tatiana:

Fair enough. I only ask because I think even in a clinical context, I've been seeing a lot more people coming. With, uh, more existential based questions or some spiritual concepts that they want to discuss, which is really fascinating. Even though I don't advertise that I'm a spiritual psychologist at all, it, it seems to, to still show up in the room and it's becoming more and more, more the case probably in the last, or yeah, I definitely want to say the last five, six years. It's very curious.

Hayley:

And, and I

Tatiana:

dream.

Hayley:

well, I think, you know, when we are living aligned,

Tatiana:

Mm. Yeah.

Hayley:

I think we do attract the people who have an interest in the things we're doing. And again, I don't know how you explain that. And maybe it's the way we talk about things. Maybe it's the way you show up and model how you're living your life. But I think the more we are aligned, the more we attract. the people that are interested in that or need the support in that. But there's certainly, you know, I, I started talking about, you know, self care and, and burnout prevention a long time ago. And I kind of look at social media now and go, okay, now everyone's talking about it. which is fantastic. It's like, great that we, you know, I think we can take a long time to catch up with things. But that's such an important thing for all of us, whether we're health professionals, whether we're running businesses or not. I think, you know, if we don't have our health, mental and physical, it can be very hard to have any kind of a,

Tatiana:

100%. Absolutely. So I guess on a final reflection, if you had to pick one transformative, uh, aspect of embracing spirituality more fully, both on a personal and a professional level, what aspect would that be for you?

Hayley:

I think starting with mindfulness because that allows you to kind of slow down and pay attention to what's happening. You know, I talk a lot about, about slowing down and tuning in and regulating our nervous system. But I think that that sort of learning that mindfulness isn't having to sit for half an hour, you know, somehow clear your mind. I mean, that's just not going to happen. We've got this tricky brain and it's made for chatter. But I think thinking about. small moments of mindfulness practice just to allow you to start to connect and pay attention can be really helpful. Like I say, I first read the mindful path to self compassion, which I really enjoyed. And there's so many great books. around these things and different kind of meditations and guided stuff and, or even just paying attention, you know, when, when you're making a cup of tea and you're listening to the kettle boil and you're smelling the aroma of the tea can be a place to start. But I think it, it's that that allows you to start to tune into yourself, which I know can be hard for some people. So it's, it's kind of starts more, what's your next smallest step? And just be curious.

Tatiana:

Hmm. Yeah. Beautiful. And I mean, maybe you've already answered this question, but I do have a tradition here where I get my guests to recommend a transformative spiritual book for our listeners that they can use to begin their journey for those that are curious to explore these more like more deeply or at least start that process. What would be the book? Would that be the book? Or do you have others that you'd like to suggest?

Hayley:

do you know, say read poetry. I know it might sound a bit weird. Read,

Tatiana:

No,

Hayley:

some

Tatiana:

that's a lovely,

Hayley:

Poetry is something exquisite. Particular, I, I love a couple of Persian poets, Hafez and Rumi, but I think even just reading poetry and seeing what speaks to you in that can be. A beautiful spiritual practice, I think. And the other one that came to me earlier was Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. I think is a, I think that's a book that everybody should read. I hate the word should that's a book that everyone could read if they choose and I would recommend they choose

Tatiana:

we strongly suggest. Oh, but I, I agree with you. I think that book is, is. It's phenomenal. It's yeah, people definitely would get so much from reading it, but I love that suggestion of poetry. That's the first time I've had something like that suggested and it's beautiful because you're right. Like there's something about art that's expressed in that way that connects straight to the soul. Doesn't it? Yeah. That's lovely. Thank you. It's been such a joyous conversation to have you here. Thank you for agreeing to have this conversation with me. Where could people find a little bit more about what you do? I know you do so many amazing things and you've got a podcast of your own. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about how they can find you?

Hayley:

So they can go to my website www. doctorhayleydquinn. com That is actually i'm going i'm in the process of having a rebrand on your new website. So, it will change shortly But they can find me there. They can find me on social media under Dr. Hayley D Quinn on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn. And yeah, I've got a podcast called Welcome to Self with Dr. Hayley D. Quinn, which is aimed at business owners. The original early episodes, like I mentioned, were aimed at, uh, therapists, but that's really about there's lots of stuff. I've had people who are not business owners that say this stuff's really helpful. Anyway, it's, uh, it's really, Part of being human and figuring all that stuff out.

Tatiana:

fantastic. I will put a, uh, links to all of these things on the show notes as well. For those of you who want to, to look into what Hayley has to offer. And I really, I highly recommend that you do. But yeah, so I'll have all the links in the show notes for you all to explore Hayley's work, but once again, Hayley, thank you so much for joining me today.

Hayley:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. It's been a real joy.

Tatiana:

thank you. And I hope you all have a lovely week and we'll speak next time. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Integrated Wisdom. It is my sincere wish that today's episode may have intrigued and inspired you to reclaim your power and step into becoming more fully integrated spiritual beings. New episodes are published every second Wednesday and I hope you'll continue to join us as we dive deeper into what it means to live an integrated life. So if it feels aligned to you, I invite you to hit subscribe and share it with others who you feel may benefit too. You may also find me on Instagram at integrated underscore wisdom. Remember each moment is an opportunity to embrace your divine potential and create a world that is more frequently inspired. So for now, stay connected, stay inspired and keep shining your light into the world.